Originally Posted by lawed143

Cycle lanes are here to stay, and more will be added.
The poor old motorist is always gonna whinge and moan, but it’s futile. Your salty tears will taste great as they flood down your angry faces….:-)

Keep on dreaming, no problem with cycle lanes as such, but the current fanatical anti motorist whining is not any sort of answer, where are you going to put these cycle lanes? The ideas of simply shutting down roads or parts of roads to meet the needs of a tiny minority is frankly stupid, financially not viable and will not suddenly produce a massive switch to cycling.

I know that local and national governments can impose restrictions on motorists, but that will only create animosity, certainly not solutions.

Originally Posted by lawed143

What a load of bo***x. You’re assuming all cyclists merely want to bypass the town centre. The reality is they want to go from the plough into town, and from Ainsdale into town.
Your blinkered approach doesn’t address that. Do better or shut up.

Behave! You've got more chance of spotting a Yeti than spotting a cyclist in one of these lanes

Originally Posted by silver fox

Keep on dreaming, no problem with cycle lanes as such, but the current fanatical anti motorist whining is not any sort of answer, where are you going to put these cycle lanes? The ideas of simply shutting down roads or parts of roads to meet the needs of a tiny minority is frankly stupid, financially not viable and will not suddenly produce a massive switch to cycling.

I know that local and national governments can impose restrictions on motorists, but that will only create animosity, certainly not solutions.

It’s not a dream - it’s reality. Watch and learn.
No roads are going to be shut down, no roads will be closed…there will still be access to all.
Not at all anti motorist whining, but rather pro-cycling alongside motoring. There is plenty of capacity for all. Remember for every cyclist there is one less car in your way, one less car in the queue, one less car pumping out pollution, one less parking space taken up, making life far easier for the hardened drivers who categorically refuse to move from A to B other than in their overpriced tin killing machines.

Maybe try moving around on foot or by bus, or god forbid cycling! You might actually become more aware of your surroundings and less self absorbed in your own life. Try it.

Originally Posted by hja

Behave! You've got more chance of spotting a Yeti than spotting a cyclist in one of these lanes

You must be blinkered cos I use them a few times a week……

Originally Posted by lawed143

Same old crap hey Michael Gilbert.? Record stuck is it.?

Same old rhetoric word for word across all your accounts eh PNP . Just you against the world. All social media is the same everyone against cycle lanes and one nut for them .

Originally Posted by silver fox

You keep harping on about this route, you know very well that the restrictions needed to create this route have already been proposed and shown to be disruptive and create far more problems and congestion than any benefit.

In your little world it seems to OK to impose problems on hundreds or more likely thousands of motorists merely to accommodate about half a dozen cyclists occasionally.

Have no problem with separated cycle ways , but the constant difficulty is where to put them, taking space and capacity from already overloaded roads, is a non starter and the product of an unthinking mind.

Where do you get the notion, that people making car trips, are somehow more important than people making bike trips? Imo, peds, cyclists and motorists are all deserved of equal treatment, when it comes to provision of adequate, safe and comprehensive infra.

Originally Posted by lawed143

What a load of bo***x. You’re assuming all cyclists merely want to bypass the town centre. The reality is they want to go from the plough into town, and from Ainsdale into town.
Your blinkered approach doesn’t address that. Do better or shut up.

Behave! You've got more chance of seeing the Yeti in a cycle lane down Houghton Street than a cyclist

Originally Posted by MICK/GILLY

Same old rhetoric word for word across all your accounts eh PNP . Just you against the world. All social media is the same everyone against cycle lanes and one nut for them .

Same old fake claims eh Micky Baby.
Time to grow up and get back on topic rather than conspiracy theories…..dumbo.

Originally Posted by The PNP

Where do you get the notion, that people making car trips, are somehow more important than people making bike trips? Imo, peds, cyclists and motorists are all deserved of equal treatment, when it comes to provision of adequate, safe and comprehensive infra.

I don’t think one journey is more important than someone else’s journey, however just for a change get your real head on, restrict motor vehicles in favour of bikes, in a town like Southport this may well promote and increase cycle use within the town, but for those coming from out of town, their response will undoubtedly be to look elsewhere for work, shopping, leisure and indeed day trippers.

Then having created your cycling nirvana, you wonder where all the people have gone.
Just why do think out of town shopping car parks are always busy? It isn’t rocket science to understand, sure you along with others can launch into your standard rant of people are lazy, overweight, no conscience, etc, etc, the truth is you have not the slightest idea of why people use their cars in preference to other forms of transport, remember Southport has a significant elderly population most of whom will gladly tell you where to park your bike.

Originally Posted by lawed143

It’s not a dream - it’s reality. Watch and learn.
No roads are going to be shut down, no roads will be closed…there will still be access to all.
Not at all anti motorist whining, but rather pro-cycling alongside motoring. There is plenty of capacity for all. Remember for every cyclist there is one less car in your way, one less car in the queue, one less car pumping out pollution, one less parking space taken up, making life far easier for the hardened drivers who categorically refuse to move from A to B other than in their overpriced tin killing machines.

Maybe try moving around on foot or by bus, or god forbid cycling! You might actually become more aware of your surroundings and less self absorbed in your own life. Try it.

OK, where and how do you propose to put these cycle lanes? Plus of course you don’t have the slightest idea as to why people use their cars, this idealistic dream of people walking and/ or cycling everywhere is only practical within a very limited distance for most people, plus of course weather plays a major part in use.

Along with PNP your line of attempting to somehow shame motorists is frankly pathetic, to repeat what I’ve posted to PNP, Southport has a large number of elderly, most of whom will gladly tell you where to park your bike.

Originally Posted by silver fox

I don’t think one journey is more important than someone else’s journey, however just for a change get your real head on, restrict motor vehicles in favour of bikes, in a town like Southport this may well promote and increase cycle use within the town, but for those coming from out of town, their response will undoubtedly be to look elsewhere for work, shopping, leisure and indeed day trippers.

Then having created your cycling nirvana, you wonder where all the people have gone.
Just why do think out of town shopping car parks are always busy? It isn’t rocket science to understand, sure you along with others can launch into your standard rant of people are lazy, overweight, no conscience, etc, etc, the truth is you have not the slightest idea of why people use their cars in preference to other forms of transport, remember Southport has a significant elderly population most of whom will gladly tell you where to park your bike.

Glad you agree that everyone's journey is of equal importance. I.e. that the importance a particular journey, is neither enhanced nor diminished by the mode of transport selected for it.

Tbh, there are very few instances of traffic being 'restricted' for bike infra. You could I suppose point to Queens Rd. But let's be realistic, it's easy enough to use Albert Rd instead, as I now do. So I find it hard to visualise out-of-towners and day-trippers shunning the place, just because they can't rubberneck along Queens Rd.

You're actually wrong about car-usage. Fyi, I (plus most transport professionals) do have a handle on why people choose so overwhelmingly to use cars in some places. It's because no viable alternatives are provided for them. The evidence is clear...Where viable alternatives are in place, overall percentage of car use lessens, whilst more trips are done via the alternative modes.

Originally Posted by silver fox

OK, where and how do you propose to put these cycle lanes? Plus of course you don’t have the slightest idea as to why people use their cars, this idealistic dream of people walking and/ or cycling everywhere is only practical within a very limited distance for most people, plus of course weather plays a major part in use.

Along with PNP your line of attempting to somehow shame motorists is frankly pathetic, to repeat what I’ve posted to PNP, Southport has a large number of elderly, most of whom will gladly tell you where to park your bike.

Firstly, no one has ever said that anyone has to walk/cycle everywhere. Find me one instance where that has been said.? You can’t, cos you’re making that up.
Secondly, no one is trying to shame motorists. Believe it or not, I am also a motorist. Shock horror.! But I also make other choices when I can - like walking or cycling. I should be allowed to do that safely, despite attempts by people like yourself trying to block it. Do you never walk anywhere.?
Thirdly, as a driver I know exactly why people use their vehicles. So don’t try and preach to me about something I’m already well versed in. I’ve been driving for circa 40 years.

Southport is full of roads that are plenty wide enough to accommodate segregated cycle lanes alongside motor lanes, without ANY detrimental affect on the flow of motorists. The lanes that are already in place haven’t had any detrimental affect of driving, access or parking ANYWHERE in and around Southport.
PNR already has a form of cycle lane - albeit inadequate. Cambridge Road could easily have a segregated lane added, as could Trafalgar, and Liverpool Rd to Ainsdale and the Formby Bypass. Scariabrick NR could also have a lane added out to Kew and continue on into Eastbank St. meeting up with the North/South route and could then continue on via Lord St onto Neville St and out to the coastal routes. None of which would impact driving.

There are plenty of options available if they are done correctly and take into account the needs of all road users. At the moment, only the needs of drivers are catered for, and everyone else has to ‘just fit in around them’. Well times are changing and progress in the right direction is being made. There is no point a few vocal opponents kicking up a fuss over nothing - cos it’s going to happen, and it’s the right thing to do despite your opposition.

So, get on the right side of history and join us in welcoming a better future for our decendants. One where choice is a right, rather than being restricted to only driving everywhere - which is what you want. Lazy and unhealthy.

Originally Posted by lawed143

Firstly, no one has ever said that anyone has to walk/cycle everywhere. Find me one instance where that has been said.? You can’t, cos you’re making that up.
Secondly, no one is trying to shame motorists. Believe it or not, I am also a motorist. Shock horror.! But I also make other choices when I can - like walking or cycling. I should be allowed to do that safely, despite attempts by people like yourself trying to block it. Do you never walk anywhere.?
Thirdly, as a driver I know exactly why people use their vehicles. So don’t try and preach to me about something I’m already well versed in. I’ve been driving for circa 40 years.

Southport is full of roads that are plenty wide enough to accommodate segregated cycle lanes alongside motor lanes, without ANY detrimental affect on the flow of motorists. The lanes that are already in place haven’t had any detrimental affect of driving, access or parking ANYWHERE in and around Southport.
PNR already has a form of cycle lane - albeit inadequate. Cambridge Road could easily have a segregated lane added, as could Trafalgar, and Liverpool Rd to Ainsdale and the Formby Bypass. Scariabrick NR could also have a lane added out to Kew and continue on into Eastbank St. meeting up with the North/South route and could then continue on via Lord St onto Neville St and out to the coastal routes. None of which would impact driving.

There are plenty of options available if they are done correctly and take into account the needs of all road users. At the moment, only the needs of drivers are catered for, and everyone else has to ‘just fit in around them’. Well times are changing and progress in the right direction is being made. There is no point a few vocal opponents kicking up a fuss over nothing - cos it’s going to happen, and it’s the right thing to do despite your opposition.

So, get on the right side of history and join us in welcoming a better future for our decendants. One where choice is a right, rather than being restricted to only driving everywhere - which is what you want. Lazy and unhealthy.

You just come up with “plenty” of roads are suitable for segregated cycle lanes, I repeat where are they, agree the bit of paint on PNR is pretty useless, but where would you put a segregated cycle lane on that road, even going past the centre bollards puts many vehicles into the “cycle lanes”, I’ve said more than once that I am not opposed to cycle lanes as such, WHERE are you going to put them, just try to give a simple answer.

For your info I did more than my share of cycling in days gone and even when I owned a car I still used the bike for leisure and exercise, playing your trump card of 40 years driving experience, I’ve been driving for just over 60 years, still have a squeaky clean license and I am well aware just how quickly things can go wrong on the roads.

In answer to one statement, these days for many reasons, I don’t walk very far and then only for exercise, I certainly would not start carrying shopping bags either on foot or on a bike.

Most cyclists simply go about their business freely with no problems, however there appear to be a growing number of cyclists who truly believe they are a law unto themselves, who believe they have the right to go anywhere at any time and nothing else must interrupt their progress, obviously we have a different opinions on the subject, but that’s life.

Originally Posted by The PNP

Glad you agree that everyone's journey is of equal importance. I.e. that the importance a particular journey, is neither enhanced nor diminished by the mode of transport selected for it.

Tbh, there are very few instances of traffic being 'restricted' for bike infra. You could I suppose point to Queens Rd. But let's be realistic, it's easy enough to use Albert Rd instead, as I now do. So I find it hard to visualise out-of-towners and day-trippers shunning the place, just because they can't rubberneck along Queens Rd.

You're actually wrong about car-usage. Fyi, I (plus most transport professionals) do have a handle on why people choose so overwhelmingly to use cars in some places. It's because no viable alternatives are provided for them. The evidence is clear...Where viable alternatives are in place, overall percentage of car use lessens, whilst more trips are done via the alternative modes.

Queens Rd is a minor irritant to some, I am more concerned with your constant babble of wanting cycle lanes on so many roads, you waffle on about diverse ideas such as pedestrianise Lord St, put segregated cycle lanes on PNR etc, apart from Hoghton St being a nuisance to some, current cycle lanes aren’t a problem, my point was the sort of plans that anti motorists espouse.

If such as you got your way, then a town like Southport would die, sure there would very likely be an increase in cycling in town, but others would simply go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by silver fox

You just come up with “plenty” of roads are suitable for segregated cycle lanes, I repeat where are they, agree the bit of paint on PNR is pretty useless, but where would you put a segregated cycle lane on that road, even going past the centre bollards puts many vehicles into the “cycle lanes”, I’ve said more than once that I am not opposed to cycle lanes as such, WHERE are you going to put them, just try to give a simple answer.

For your info I did more than my share of cycling in days gone and even when I owned a car I still used the bike for leisure and exercise, playing your trump card of 40 years driving experience, I’ve been driving for just over 60 years, still have a squeaky clean license and I am well aware just how quickly things can go wrong on the roads.

In answer to one statement, these days for many reasons, I don’t walk very far and then only for exercise, I certainly would not start carrying shopping bags either on foot or on a bike.

Most cyclists simply go about their business freely with no problems, however there appear to be a growing number of cyclists who truly believe they are a law unto themselves, who believe they have the right to go anywhere at any time and nothing else must interrupt their progress, obviously we have a different opinions on the subject, but that’s life.

Oh so you want all the technical and engineering drawings from me do you.? I’m not a road engineer so you’ll have to refer back to Sefton for those - they did propose and design some routes and made the details public.
But basically, you re-engineer the roads, re-align the motor lanes and add in segregated cycle routes. It’s been done thousands of times around the globe on streets just like ours, wide ones, narrow ones, introducing new controls, regulations, one ways, changed priorities etc….. it’s all very possible - you’re just blinkered to the possibilities, which are many.

So you’ve been driving 60 years, so you’re mid to late 70’s. Maybe getting a little tired and stiff. So that’s ok, you can carry on driving even with the cycle lanes - you won’t be stopped or restricted. You’ll just have to learn to share and accept that life has moved on in those 60 years and now changes are coming. Your driving years are coming to an end anyway if you want to be realistic. So maybe it’s time to get cycle lanes installed and then you could still have your freedom to get about once you no longer are safe to drive. It’ll happen.

Who are all these cyclists you see going anywhere at anytime being a law unto themselves.? Cos apparently, according to your cohorts - there aren’t any bloody cyclists around……. Make your mind up, are there loads of law breakers, or are there no cyclists at all.???!!

So you did a bit of cycling the past. Great.! Start again.! You’ll love it. Get an electric bike.! They’re amazing and you can go miles on them. Do it.!